How To Build A Well-Being-Driven Organization That Creates Flourishing People with Teresa Roche

Ashish Kothari: Hi Teresa, it is so wonderful to have you with us. Thank you for agreeing to join the Happiness Squad podcast and for sharing your lifetime of wisdom with our listeners. Thank you.

Teresa Roche: Thank you, Ashish. Whenever I'm asked to do something like this and reflect, it's a gift to me. And of course, I always hope it has value for those who are listening—and to you, Ashish. So thank you.

Ashish Kothari: Thank you, my friend. Look, you've had such a rich set of experiences, Teresa—from corporate work to being a senior leader at multiple Fortune 500 companies, to your own consulting work, and now as CHRO for the City of Fort Collins, where you’re responsible for nearly 3,000 people.

I’m curious—looking back on your extensive journey, what are some pivotal moments that have shaped you into the amazing leader that you are today?

Teresa Roche: Well, Ashish, it’s very generous of you to say I’m an amazing leader, so we’ll hold that one to the side for a moment.

I’m someone who reflects, writes, and takes time to pause, and this question made me think about how my life has been a series of moments. But I want to talk about three experiences that have shaped me deeply.

The first is my family of origin. I’m the youngest of seven children, with five older brothers. My parents were born during the Spanish flu pandemic and lived through the Great Depression. My father was a prisoner of war in World War II while my mother was at home with my oldest brother, David.

Growing up in that environment, I believe three things about my family became part of my genetic DNA—or were already there and just reinforced: curiosity, commitment, and contribution.

My family was always curious. Curiosity showed up in how we read, how we met people, and how we remained open to learning.

Commitment was evident in my mother, who went to work full-time when I was five and the last of the seven had started school. We had family meetings to talk about how to create harmony so that everything could get done, allowing each of us to bring our best selves. Through that, I learned early on what it meant to take accountability through that commitment.

Contribution was ingrained in us by my parents, who lived through the Depression and World War II. That generation passed down the belief that if you can help your community, you should.

Those three C’s became a pivotal strand in my life. I could tell story after story about my family—when you have that many siblings, you certainly have plenty of stories!

The second pivotal influence in my life is my family of marriage. I’m sure you know Adam Grant, the author. He writes on Substack, and if I could, I’d love to share a quote that I sent to my husband. Adam Grant wrote:

"The clearest sign of intellectual chemistry isn’t agreeing with someone—it’s enjoying your disagreements with them. Harmony is not the combination of identical sounds. It’s a pleasing arrangement of different tones, voices, or instruments. Creative tension makes beautiful music."

. We’ve been together since: 1982

There’s nothing quite like having your family serve as a mirror. I can say, I believe in this or this is what I’m trying to do, and they hold me to account—with their feedback and their questions.

The third pivotal influence is the many chapters of my career. My curiosity has shown up in how I pursue education and in the different work chapters I’ve experienced. I have so many stories about the people who have helped me along the way.

Ashish, if I could just say one last thing under this question—I always try to share the story of Betty Nelson, who met me when I was 19, at a very interesting developmental time in my life. She has loved me fiercely all these years, across every chapter and move I’ve made. She helps me remember my name whenever I forget.

Betty, along with many others, taught me an invaluable lesson: Power doesn’t come from taking it from someone else. Through collaboration and co-creation, you can move things forward.

That may have been a lot, but as I reflected deeply on your question, those are the three things I wanted to mention. I saw you taking notes, Ashish—what are your thoughts?

Ashish Kothari: Oh my God. You know, a lot of people spend their lives leaning forward, forgetting about their past and all the experiences—conscious or unconscious—that shape who they are and how they show up.

From the times I’ve met and interacted with you, Teresa, those three C’s are so obvious now—your love for learning, your involvement in the Harvard Flourishing Network, your constant pursuit of knowledge. Your commitment to your organization and the city, this mindset of we, collectively. And of course, your contribution-oriented approach.

I love those three C’s. And for those listening, it’s worth reflecting—what are the core values, the core beliefs that have shaped you? We all have them. As the Buddha says, both the seeds of the good and the bad are within us—it all depends on what we choose to water.

So many of the things you’ve highlighted, Teresa, exist within all of us, though they may take different forms. Your second story is also incredibly relevant, especially now, when it feels like we’ve lost the capacity to take another’s perspective. That skill is critical right now.

We’re in a time when, as a country, we seem almost divided 50/50. We struggle to listen, let alone create harmony between conflicting perspectives.

And yet, that ability—to not just hold onto one perspective but to embrace six, seven, even eight different perspectives—is essential. We need it now more than ever. I love that you’ve role-modeled this in your life.

And I can relate—my wife and I are also very different, believe it or not, yet we work so well together. I always say, I’m lucky because she is both the keel in my boat, keeping me grounded, and the wind in my sails, pushing me forward when everything around me is still. She’s very detail-oriented, and I’m big-picture. Sounds like you and David are the same way.

When that kind of partnership works, it’s beautiful. I wouldn’t be where I am, and our firm wouldn’t be where it is, without her. This idea of embracing dueling—or even multiple—perspectives is powerful.

And your last point about collaboration is crucial. We’re in a time where collective wisdom is what will move us forward. Individual knowledge is simply insufficient—things are moving too fast, too complexly. Unless we collaborate and co-create, we’ll sub-optimize the system.

Teresa Roche: Ashish, I love that you pulled out the importance of the past.

I love all kinds of cultural expressions—performing arts, literature, music, musicals, plays, museums. But one of my favorite directors is Christopher Nolan.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but every one of his films is about time. Time itself is a social construct. And I love experiencing the past, present, and future as if they’re one virtuous circle.

So I appreciate you highlighting the past—how I can reflect on it, be present, and also look forward. And my sense is that you do the same thing.

Ashish Kothari: It’s true. That’s why we have such an energy resonance. It’s also beautiful—this idea of being grounded in the past, present, and future. Because really, they aren’t separate. All we have is the present. But at the same time, we don’t want the past to dictate the present or the future to constrain it.

It’s about holding everything in a way that allows us to take forward what’s useful, learn from what hasn’t worked, but not let it define us—because we’re constantly growing, learning, evolving, and changing.

That’s one of the things I love about you, Teresa.

So tell me—how do these core ingredients come to life in your leadership? More importantly, how did you think about creating a thriving workplace culture at the City of Fort Collins? This initiative has been running for six or seven years now, right? We were fortunate to be part of that journey.

Teresa Roche: Ashish, I’m going to weave a little here.

Since you used the word ingredients, I’ll stir the cauldron a bit.

Being the youngest of seven, I used to think I had to be everything my siblings were—as athletic, as intelligent, as funny.

That’s why Betty Nelson, who I met at 19, was such a gift to me. She helped me understand something that took me years to embrace. This is a quote from Francis de Sales: "Be who you are and be that perfectly well."

There are many things about you that I admire, Ashish. Do I hope to develop in those areas? Of course. But I need to be Teresa—and the best version of her. Betty saw me for who I was. She didn’t know me as a Roche from Highland, Indiana—she simply saw me.

And about that phrase—"be who you are and be that perfectly well"—I want to clarify something. The word perfect can be misleading.

In: 1982

Ashish Kothari: I didn’t know that. Wow.

Teresa Roche: I hope I’m telling the truth on that—I’ve researched it to make sure I remember correctly.

I believe we come into the world whole, but we often forget. Then, life becomes a journey of remembering.

That belief has influenced my leadership deeply. At work, I love helping people discover who they are, through whatever journey they need to take—because everyone brings a unique set of talents and gifts.

Letting them be who they are and be that perfectly well is something I try to foster. And that ties into well-being. In fact, Ashish, self-awareness is one of your core practices, isn’t it?

Ashish Kothari: Yes.

Teresa Roche: It’s such a foundational piece. That certainly is one.

And, Ashish, there’s something I haven’t shared yet. A defining moment for me was when my mother died while I was in graduate school. That was an incredibly painful moment.

Ashish Kothari: Yeah.

Teresa Roche: But her death opened a portal of transformation—one I didn’t fully understand at the time, but that I now recognize in hindsight.

That experience helped me understand polarities—how you can feel sorrow and joy, grief and love, at the same time. Learning to hold these opposing emotions helped me tremendously.

You mentioned earlier how, now more than ever, we need to truly listen and see different perspectives. Holding polarities allows me to see the both/and, the yes/and, instead of either/or.

That’s the second big thing that has shaped me. Ashish, I want to pause here—there’s more I could share, but I want to give you a chance to jump in before I continue.

Ashish Kothari: Thank you. It’s beautiful, right?

Wholeness is so critical. Knowing yourself is so critical. That’s why we put awareness at the heart of both our individual and organizational work.

It’s interesting—when we’re in nature, when we admire something outside, we take it in as a whole. Whether it’s a garden, a simple plant, a crooked tree—we don’t critique it. We just say, Oh my God, look how beautiful that is. We embrace the colors of a sunrise or sunset, the asymmetry of mountains. And that is perfection.

But when it comes to people, we judge. I like this, I don’t like this, I want this, I don’t want that. We create stories. We start filtering, labeling.

So I find this idea of wholeness so profound. If we can truly see everything as a whole, to embrace our own completeness instead of fragmenting ourselves, we unlock so much potential.

You’re absolutely right—we say this all the time:

You have a 0% chance of being like somebody else, but you have a 100% chance of being the best version of you—whatever that best is. That’s the path.

And it reminds me of Tal Ben-Shahar, one of the preeminent happiness researchers. He defines happiness as whole-person, whole being.

Teresa Roche: Oh, that’s beautiful. I hadn’t heard that before. Wow.

And, Ashish, I want to amplify what you just said—when we embrace our own wholeness, we can’t help but see others through that same lens.

Ashish Kothari: Yes.

Teresa Roche: That’s so powerful.

Ashish Kothari: And from that place of wholeness, we integrate all the parts of ourselves. We see our own flaws more than anyone else does. But instead of rejecting them, we learn to accept our shadow.

Teresa Roche: Yes, accepting our shadow matters.

Ashish Kothari: Exactly. It’s about recognizing: Hey, it’s okay. This is who I am. And as you said, we’re all on a path of evolution. We’re not shedding "defective" parts or fixing something broken—we’re evolving as a whole. That’s what’s truly beautiful.

If we can help people get to know themselves—through our work, through the way we show up, through the environments we create—then we unlock so much. Because when we truly see ourselves, we see the real us.

Teresa Roche: And that matters. I know we’ll talk later about the so what—how this actually makes a difference. But I can already see a direct line of sight between well-being work and how we serve our communities.

Ashish Kothari: Yeah.

Teresa Roche: It’s very clear. There are a couple of other things I wanted to share.

Going back to how these stories shaped my leadership—Two things come to mind.

Ashish, you showed a video in the Rewire program that I know we’ll talk about, about the importance of location—placing oneself well. To do that, I think it helps to know your intention.

Years ago, I had the opportunity to work on my purpose—why was Teresa born into this world? I explored my leadership DNA, and I did it in co-creation—because, as you said, sometimes others see things in us that we don’t see ourselves. And what I discovered was this: My purpose is to be present, one heart at a time.

Ashish, I can live that whether I’m with a thousand people or just one. I feel deep resonance when I’m aligned with my purpose—whether at work, in the playgroups I used to run when my daughter was young, or in everyday interactions.

That’s the gift of purpose—it can show up anywhere. And I can always tell—either in the moment or later in reflection—when I’m off track. I also had the opportunity, through Agile, to define my leadership DNA in just six words. It’s a famous six-word exercise.

Mine is: Be present. Stay conscious. Act compassionately.

On my best days, I live by that. And when I’m off, I recognize it—I don’t hold myself to some impossible standard of perfection. As I mentioned earlier, perfection, in its original etymology, means to come around and be whole.

That just helps me stay grounded. And I can see how my family, my marriage, and my life experiences have shaped that. I hope that makes sense.

Ashish Kothari: It absolutely does. And what a beautiful purpose statement. I wrote that down—it’s so simple, yet so powerful. Be present. One heart at a time.

It’s such a reminder that the greatest service we can offer is presence. Not being lost in our heads, not stuck in the past or worrying about the future. Not formulating responses while someone is speaking. Just being. Taking in the moment.

Teresa Roche: That’s it. And, Ashish, I don’t know what your purpose statement is—I could probably guess it! But I see how you show up, how you give your full attention to whoever is in front of you. The gift of attention is one of the greatest things we can offer another person.

Ashish Kothari: Yes. Especially in a world that’s so noisy, filled with distractions pulling at us. Just being with someone is a gift.

Teresa Roche: It really is.

Ashish Kothari: Since you asked about my purpose—For me, it’s actually the same as the purpose of Happiness Squad. They’re one and the same.

It’s about democratizing flourishing. Helping people truly live the science behind flourishing—not just know it intellectually, but integrate it into how they live, work, and lead. Because those things aren’t separate. There is no difference.

And I feel deeply called to this because today, performance comes at the cost of well-being. We’ve forgotten that investing in well-being drives performance.

Ask any Olympian what helped them get to the top of their game. It’s not just the hours they spent in the gym or the number of times they practiced a skill. It’s a holistic set of practices—physical, emotional, social, spiritual, and purpose-driven well-being. That’s what allows them to perform at their best when the moment calls.

This is common sense in sports, but in business, it gets lost. Most executives, leaders, and employees treat well-being as an afterthought—a "benefit" that’s separate from work. But in reality, well-being and performance are inseparable.

That’s the dichotomy I feel called to fix. Our ways of working are broken. For the last 25 years, I’ve been on this journey—from operations, to scaling systems, to now focusing on bringing these principles into the world of work.

Teresa Roche: And you are bringing it, Ashish.

Ashish Kothari: Thank you. Every day. It’s the beauty of work-life integration. And I have the gift, and through my work, I want to make it possible for others to experience it, too.

Teresa Roche: Well, Ashish, the people I work with at the city may tell you that language is really big for me. Because language leads thinking, it informs thinking, and it reflects thinking.

I don’t use the words work-life balance because that makes them sound separate—as if I have a life and then I have work. I have a life. And I have a dashboard. And I think, Ashish, that’s really what you’re saying. But I don’t say work-life. I say, I have a life.

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely.

Because think about it, right?

Let’s just play with this idea—what’s work-life balance? What’s work-life integration? What are Teresa and Ashish talking about?

Here’s a distinction for everyone listening.

When you think about your 24 hours, most people I work with—those striving for this balance and struggling to achieve it—tend to think, I work from here to here, and then I have life.

But think about life—you don’t compartmentalize it like that.

You don’t divide time for yourself, your kids, your parents, your art, your hobbies in the same rigid way.

So why do we do it with work and life?

And my insight was this—because most of us are working on things that have little meaning.

Teresa Roche: Oh, yeah.

Ashish Kothari: And so we tell ourselves, I find meaning in life. I don’t need to find meaning at work. But I ask—why not? Why do we accept meaningless work as just a way to survive?

Why? If you infuse meaning into what you do every day—like you do, Teresa—then it’s no longer work versus life.

It’s just life.

Teresa Roche: I love that, Ashish. I love that. I think that’s very true. In fact, sometimes I say, Well, if it’s work-life, does that mean you’re dead at work?

Ashish Kothari: Ha! Exactly.

Teresa Roche: And what you’re saying is—it’s not about the type of work. Anybody can find meaning in any work. I often say, "Work is love made manifest." For me, it’s one of the ways I bring love into the world.

Ashish Kothari: I love that. Work is love made manifest.

Teresa Roche: I think many people have said that, Ashish, but it’s been true for me since I was young.

Ashish Kothari: It’s such a profound way of thinking about it.

And you know, I was just having a conversation 20 minutes ago with someone who said,

"I’m 50. I spent the first 30 years running startups, doing this and that, but now I’m doing something different. I’m thinking about what I want to do for the next 20 years."

And I asked them, Why 20? Why not 40?

Why do people think about retirement as I’ve paid my dues, and now I’m going to live my life?

But if your life is already filled with meaning, you don’t need to retire.

You retire your tires—you change them—and you keep going.

You keep living into your purpose. You keep serving.

Teresa Roche: Yes! At our executive leadership retreat, we each brought a signal—something I learned from the Institute for the Future in Palo Alto. A signal is something you see on the edge—something that you have evidence might be emerging.

And I got up and said:

"I am a signal. You are a signal."

And I spoke about the Seven G’s—seven generations. And I shared all these facts showing that women over 55, into their 70s and 80s, are staying in the world of work. Some for practical reasons, but many for purpose and meaning.

So, Ashish, I have never said I was going to retire. David, Kai, and I—we’ve done things along the way, rather than waiting, like Now we’re going to have fun.

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely! So, Teresa—tell me, how do you take this way of being, these lessons, and apply them to leadership? I’ve looked at cities across the country, and I have to say—I’m really impressed by what you’ve built.

This isn’t just a one-year program—it’s an evolution. It’s an ongoing journey. So, for those listening, can you share some of the initiatives and strategies you’re pursuing to ensure employee well-being is at the heart of your work at the city?

Teresa Roche: Wow. Well, Ashish, the first thing I need to say is, when I walked into the City of Fort Collins, the journey toward wellness had already been underway long before I arrived.

And so, walking into it, I was in awe. I had worked for remarkable companies, but I had never seen this kind of focus on well-being. We talk about it in our values, and it matters because we know it directly impacts how we provide exceptional service for our community.

So, what are some of our strategies? Well, first—there has been a wellness program in place for a long time. And now, under Kelly Bodden, we’re looking at: How do we integrate wellness with benefits, compensation, well-being, and professional development? Because all of these things interconnect.

We’re shifting toward a holistic and integrated approach. But let me share a couple of specific programmatic things.

Ashish Kothari: Yes.

Teresa Roche: The city has an on-site care clinic. And we have clear evidence—not just from personal stories, but from medical claims data—that this clinic is making a difference.

People feel seen. They have a trusted place to go when they need help. And it has a financial impact as well. That’s important, Ashish, because our budget comes from public funding—sales tax, use fees, and grants.

The public deserves to know that we are spending wisely. And keeping our talent well means we can better serve our community. Another initiative we have is Well Days. This started long ago.

And it looks at wellness from every angle—physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, and social.

Each year, we offer a series of activities that employees can complete to earn points toward a Well Day—a free day off. They can earn up to three Well Days a year.

Ashish, if you saw all the activities we offer, it’s really quite beautiful. For example, employees can do a Healthy Homes Assessment, which we also offer to the community—because the quality of air in your home matters.

It’s a myriad of offerings that promote wellness, and that’s a very specific strategy. But let me pause there—am I hitting on the ones you hoped I would?

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely. And I love how you connect it—your people serve the community, but they can’t pour from an empty cup.

Teresa Roche: Yeah. So here’s something I think is important. I have never had such a diverse portfolio of services in an organization that is co-located in one city.

Ashish Kothari: Yeah.

Teresa Roche: I oftentimes tell people—my last position in high tech was easier than what I do here. And we were in 32 countries in that role. But here, we have such diverse talent.

Ashish Kothari: Yes.

Teresa Roche: So not everyone is in a building. Our street operators, bus operators, police officers—they are out in the community, up close and personal, providing services.

When COVID hit, we shut our buildings, and I went to our wellness team and said, You’ve got to figure something out here because people can’t come in. So we went virtual. And it turned out to be a gift—it forced us to think about how we could include people who weren’t in a building.

Even those of us working from home were still actively engaged in wellness. We now have a program that we started about three years ago called Wellbeats, Ashish. It offers all kinds of video-based wellness activities—whether for weight loss, mindfulness, meditation.

And the participation numbers blew me away. We have close to 800 individuals consistently using Wellbeats. What I love about that is that it helps us diversify our wellness offerings. Because we all have different work environments, schedules, and needs, and Wellbeats allows us to reach everyone—no matter their role.

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely.

Teresa Roche: And then, of course, Ashish, one of my favorite things—because we like to experiment—is Rewire. That program aligns so beautifully with what we do at the city. But I’m going to pause because I don’t want to keep going—I want to bring you into this conversation.

Ashish Kothari: No, I love it. And I love the strategy you’re outlining. What stands out to me is that it ties back to wholeness; it’s not one-size-fits-all. It’s about choice, autonomy, and agency—giving people the ability to engage in ways that work for them, while still holding the bigger vision of well-being. Because we have to say—here’s why this matters.

I also love that you’re bringing in the financial aspect. The fact that you’re funded by the city and are committed to being judicious with resources—ensuring an ROI—is so important. Many programs don’t tie an ROI to wellness, and bringing that discipline into it is beautiful.

You also mentioned shifting from wellness to integrated well-being—I think that’s a crucial distinction. Because from all the research and work that I’ve seen, many wellness programs fail because they are:

1️⃣ Siloed—they are treated as one-off initiatives, not an integrated system.

2️⃣ Disconnected from the way work is structured—they don’t address the system of work itself.

ame out with research in late: 2023

Only 27% of individual well-being is influenced by personal factors—things an individual can control, like sleep, diet, exercise.

72% is driven by systemic factors—how jobs are designed, how teams interact, and the overall organizational culture.

When it comes to burnout, that organizational impact accounts for 97%.

Unless we holistically look at the system, our ways of working, unless we quantify and identify the biggest drivers that are resulting in losses in us being at our best, and target them, very little is possible.

Teresa Roche: Ashish, thank you for bringing that up. Because I do think there’s a tendency to say, It’s up to the individual—eat better, sleep more, manage stress. But during the pandemic, we made it a point to emphasize that while individuals play a role, the system they operate in is just as important.

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely.

Teresa Roche: Whether people have the tools, the processes, the support they need—that matters. I love that you brought that up because it’s a bigger story than just the individual.

Ashish Kothari: Yeah, it absolutely is. And we have to give people choices—but we can’t just check the box and say, Okay, we’ve done well-being. It’s way beyond that.

And, Teresa, whether we like it or not, there is still so much stigma around well-being. Many people who are struggling either don’t recognize it, feel they are alone, or don’t feel safe raising their hand.

So in parallel to promoting well-being, we also have to make sure we are continually de-stigmatizing it.

Teresa Roche: Yes! In fact, during the pandemic, we worked hard to normalize grief. We had conversations about what it means to be human. And, Ashish, you said something earlier that I want to highlight—

The city does a lot to proactively create structures for wholeness and well-being, so people can bring their best selves to serve the community. But there are times when people need extra support because the challenges are bigger.

So while we focus on prevention, we also have robust systems in place to respond when people need more help. Because it’s just as important to show up for people when they are struggling.

Ashish Kothari: Yes. And we can only respond effectively if we are present—if we are really paying attention.

Teresa Roche: It all keeps coming back to presence, doesn’t it?

Ashish Kothari: Yes. And it has to come from a place of compassion—not judgment.

Last time we spoke, you shared this beautiful vision—one that extends from individual employees to teams, from teams to the organization, and from the organization to the community.

Can you walk us through that vision and how it amplifies well-being across all these levels?

Teresa Roche: Ashish, let me walk my way into this. You mention this in your book, and there is so much neuroscience-based evidence on how to help people feel safe and supported—how to respond when their amygdala gets triggered.

We now have scientific proof from MRIs that validate these truths. If you understand and believe that, when someone is well and conscious—not just always "on," but aware even when they’re "off"—the way they show up for their team changes. That allows the team to be more creative and innovative in delivering services or responding to challenges.

Since we interact with the community so much—whether it's bus operators engaging with passengers, police officers in neighborhoods, or utility workers helping residents—their ability to express kindness and truly listen when someone feels a service isn’t working well, it makes a huge difference.

You asked me about the connection from the individual to the team, the organization, and the community. I have a phrase from my time at Agilent: “inside out, outside in.”

As a public sector organization, we need to care as much about community flourishing as we do about our own well-being. It’s a virtuous cycle.

You also asked about Fort Collins' role. We function as an ecosystem, working closely with the university, schools, hospitals, county government, nonprofits, and businesses. We all have to be well together.

There’s an organization called the Northern Colorado Community Foundation that released a report last year called The Intersections. If you haven’t read it, I’d love to send it to you.

The theme was pursuing regional well-being, and it perfectly reflects what I’m talking about. The key insight? I am not fully well when another is not well.

Ashish Kothari: We are in a fundamental state of interbeing. As Thich Nhat Hanh would say, we inter-are. There is this timeless wisdom, like Ubuntu—"You are, so I am"—has been lost in our world. We need to return to that.

Teresa Roche: I love that, Ashish. You and I live in a great state and a great region where there’s an intention to be that way.

Ashish Kothari: Yes, and you mentioned inside-out and outside-in. As a public organization, we should embrace that. In fact, every organization inter-is. We all need to be in that place.

Research proves it. When we find and build that connection, unbelievable things happen. Take employee satisfaction as a measure—Alex Edmans, a professor at London Business School, who was on our podcast, proved a 2–3.5% incremental shareholder return. And it’s causation, not correlation.

Most studies, even at Oxford, show correlations. His work proved causation—he projected future stock market returns and showed how companies that prioritize connection bring in 30–50% more shareholder value over time. It makes economic sense. He captured it beautifully in one quote:

"If you want to reach the land of profit, follow the road of purpose."

If our reason for being is about making the world better and serving others, everything else follows.

Teresa Roche: That’s beautiful. In our world, I don’t focus on shareholder value, but we do a community survey with questions that matter—do people feel safe? How is their quality of life? That’s how we gather our customer feedback.

Ashish Kothari: Absolutely, and it’s a beautiful approach. Look at Patagonia—last year, they declared, “The earth is our only shareholder.” I love that.

For cities like yours, if you exist to serve the community, that implicitly includes your employees. It’s not about serving employees or any single group—it’s about serving, period. And if we hold that perspective, so much becomes possible.

Teresa Roche: That’s why I love being here, Ashish. My colleagues inspire me with how they serve their purpose. If I ever write a book, it will be about them—their dedication, their actions.

Now that I’m inside the organization, from what I used to experience as a community member, I see what it truly takes. So, I have such deep regard and love because I’m around people that inspire me with how they’re serving their purpose and our purpose.

Ashish Kothari: Teresa, it was such a joy. I’d love for you to share how you found me and how we ended up working on Rewire together. Tell that story first, and then I’ll share why I said yes when you reached out. What inspired you to bring Rewire and me into this?

Teresa Roche: I was in my Harvard LIMA learning cohort, where we discussed the concept of polarities. We explored Mobius, a beautiful way to understand them. That led me to Mobius Leadership, where I saw that you were speaking. I watched your video on LinkedIn and thought, My gosh!

You talked about flourishing, which was a key question we were asking ourselves: How do we design our organization for human flourishing? How do we view our community through that lens?

I was drawn to your message, like a moth to a light. When one of my colleagues reached out to you about working with the city, you were so gracious.

Flourishing was the nectar that I followed.

Ashish Kothari: So beautiful. Teresa, my yes was really driven by what I saw in you and in the city. We work with organizations all the time, but this was an incredible opportunity—to create large-scale change by shifting people's root perspectives.

It was about rewiring away from fear, scarcity, and self-preservation toward a different way of being—one that we know is possible. The opportunity to partner with you and the city, which holds this mission as a long-standing mandate, was truly special.

This isn’t just a one-year program; it’s part of a long lineage. It was a joy and an absolute pleasure to run that pilot and demonstrate what’s possible. I’m really excited to see where you take it next.

Teresa Roche: We're excited to talk more about it too, Ashish. I attended the session where people shared their stories of impact. Data is important, but it’s the stories that truly move people.

Ashish Kothari: Yes! How touching were those stories? Oh my God.

Teresa Roche: I still am hearing them. I see the evidence of their impact. That was a real gift.

Ashish Kothari: It was a gift to me too. How engaged they were, the way Doreen and Lynn created an environment for people to show up, support each other—it was incredible. Even then, I said 90% of the work was done by you all. There was nothing new I was bringing.

We were simply creating space for practice, for people to reconnect with themselves. Going back to our original theme of aerostatic: helping people rediscover their core essence, their own way of being.

So my friend, as we wrap up, Teresa, what advice would you give to our listeners—whether they are city administrators or business leaders—who want to walk this path?

Teresa Roche: I’ll share two things. The first might surprise you.

When I worked in high tech, I started every presentation with this warning: Take only the lessons that fit your CEO and organization.

I would start there because it’s not about copying what someone else did. It has to evolve from your organization’s context. And leaders are signal generators, and that is really important. It’s not about do what the city does. It’s do what aligns with your mission in the world and what it needed by your people.

Second, I always tell people what were the questions we tried to answer because it’s in question that I think there is so much juiec. One that deeply resonates with me comes from Dr. Bill Kahn, whom I met through the LILA program: "What if we designed our organization for human flourishing?"

That question calls for something. I think, even if we don’t use those exact words, it’s the question our city leaders, employees, and community members are continuously asking. So I would encourage leaders to frame their own questions in a way that leads to meaningful action.

 It goes back to what I said: Be who you are and be that perfectly well. Be your organization and be that perfectly well.

Ashish Kothari: That’s such a powerful question to leave our listeners with. Imagine if every leader asked their team that question and spent an hour just listening and exploring. No definitions—just a space to reflect.

You could extend it beyond organizations—how do we design our team, our work, our families, for human flourishing? That’s where true, unique solutions emerge.

Teresa, thank you for your wisdom and insights. It’s such a joy to share this space with you.

Teresa Roche: Thank you, Ashish. It’s been a shared creation. Be well.

Ashish Kothari: You too, my friend.