From "Bad Busy" to "Good Busy": Reinventing Your Approach to Productivity with Kate Sotsenko

Ashish Kothari: Kate, it is so lovely to have you with us today and thank you for joining to share your insights around eliminating busyness in our lives. It's such a common issue that people are facing.

Kate Sotsenko: Hi, Ashish. Thank you so much for having me and hi everybody. Yes, it's a very common word. Let's put it this way.

Ashish Kothari: You know, when I was at McKinsey, people would often ask, "How are you?" And I'd always say, "I'm awesome." Everyone would step back because the most common response was, "I'm busy."

As a partner group, we decided to address it. People asked, "How are you?" and the response was, "Busy." I'm like, "Is that a good thing to be busy? Is that a bad thing to be busy?" So I'm really excited to dig into this.

But before we go there, talk a little bit, Kate, about what inspired you to make all of your work that you're doing now. What inspired you to start the Good Busy? And what was the journey that got you to where you are right now?

Kate Sotsenko: Well, I'll try to make a long story as short as possible. It all started about eight years ago. I attended a leadership workshop with a professor from IMD Business School in Lausanne. He asked us what at work gives us energy. That was a question I had never asked myself before.

He said something else that stayed with me: "It's not because you are really good at your job that it gives you energy." Since that moment, I started looking for what actually gives me energy at work.

My background is in client relationship management and client experience. I worked for luxury brands and hospitality and retail. I was very good at my job and worked for great companies.

But at that moment, I was asking myself, "Does what I do give me energy?" I continued this reflection for quite a few years because I'm not the type of person who jumps into things. I need to think them through, and I promised myself that until I find exactly what gives me energy, I will not move out of where I was the expert at that time.

Five years ago, my manager introduced me to executive coaching. For me, coaching was sports because I played tennis for 10 years when I was younger. I wasn't necessarily aware of business coaching. Mentorship, yes. Training, yes. And I loved training. That was one of the things that gave me energy, but not coaching.

We started using more and more coaching in our own work. Coaching became 80% of my work at a certain point. I asked my manager to support me and sponsor my coaching training so that I could gain expertise there as well. That's how I became a coach.

The focus became on productivity because I've always been an organization freak. I don't know if it's linked with a little bit of OCD as well. I would say I had a lot of questions from people about how I do that, and I've always credited my organization skills. I loved reading a lot and combined all of this together. That's how the Good Busy came to life.

It wasn't the exact name, but the theme. I used to always answer, "I'm busy," when people asked me how I was. For me, that was a good thing. But I saw people say, "Oh, I'm so sorry. Me too." And I was like, "Why are you sorry? I think it's a great thing to be busy."

This is basically the overall story of where I am now. When it comes to LinkedIn, because that's how we met as well, I never intended to post content and create content on LinkedIn. Sometimes things happen in life.

I went on LinkedIn to post once to say, "I'm starting my own adventure, a coaching company, a productivity consulting business," and I saw that people were posting and creating educational content on LinkedIn. I thought, "What if I tried?" And here I am a year and a half later.

Ashish Kothari: Beautiful. I've loved how succinct and practical some of the tips are. So many people are wrestling with this. It's amazing to me, Kate, because if you think about our efficiency as a generation, how much can we do with how much effort? It was up 90% faster.

Almost everything, there is so much friction that we've removed from our lives: travel, banking, groceries, ordering food, meeting with colleagues around the globe. 25 years ago, email didn't exist. Pre-COVID, Zoom and all of this weren't that common.

Of course, we did video conferencing, but it took so much time to organize. Now, with AI, what used to take an hour now takes five minutes and is probably even better. We should be swimming in free time, taking more vacations, being more present, but that's not our reality. We are actually busier than our parents, who were busier than their parents.

We have to address this and make it practical. What's behind this? What's getting in our way? How do we get out of it? How are we creating our own issues, not others creating our issues?

So that's the next question I want to ask you. As you've done work, as you've read, as you've been working and coaching so many clients, what are some of the challenges or drivers behind the “bad busy”, if you will?

Kate Sotsenko: That's a very good question, and I love how you explained all of this earlier, especially because everything is so easy and so simple. We have this distance, right? You're sitting in the US right now, and I'm sitting in Cyprus.

We have this distance, but there is this proximity that has been created through social media and the internet. We are constantly exposed to visual cues and information. I always say that we humans do not invest enough time in learning about ourselves. We invest more time learning about technology, whereas the technology is investing in learning about us.

Sometimes, if you use the word manipulation, this is how technology uses the knowledge of the human being to sort of manipulate us into certain decisions, words, and needs. For me, the fact that everything is so close to our fingertips makes us want more and more things.

I love the concept of the paradox of choice. I read this book by Barry Schwartz, and there's a wonderful TED Talk where he discusses that the more choices and options we have, the harder it is for us to make decisions and be satisfied. He talks about the concept of maximizers and satisficers.

What I notice most when working with my clients is that the majority of people who are incredibly “bad busy” are maximizers. They are constantly looking for more, better, and faster.

When we start our conversation, I say, "Fantastic, this is what is happening now. Thank you for sharing. What do you want instead?" Many of them say, "I don't know," because they have never stopped to ask themselves that question. They don't have enough time to stop and ask themselves what they want.

When we don't know what we want, it's very hard to get it. We're constantly looking for something and running after something, which leads us into the hamster wheel. This is the biggest problem.

I love Simon Sinek, and we all believe that we need to start with a why. In terms of productivity, why is the driver, but in order to be productive and satisfied with your results and outcomes, you need to start with the end goal in mind.

What is your destination?

Where are you going?

How will you know that you got there?

A lot of people use phrases like, "I want to be productive, happy, satisfied, and fulfilled." What does that actually mean? Being happy for you might mean being next to the mountains, while being happy for me means being next to the sea.

We all have different definitions of happiness, and we forget to define these terms. That's why we keep going in circles and adding stuff instead of eliminating things.

Ashish Kothari: It's very deeply rooted in our neuroscience. Our brains evolved to keep us safe, not happy. Our desire for more comes from a fundamental sense of safety and the need to continue forward.

We went from comparing ourselves to our neighbors next door to comparing ourselves to anyone and everyone out there. I was talking to someone the other day who said, "I've got 80,000 followers, but I look at the person who has 300,000 and think they have more than me."

We're always comparing. Our hunger is not for more, but for all. That hunger never gets satisfied because the moment we get to one, we want the next, and then the next.

Turning inward to understand what gives us satisfaction and achieving that through a process of elimination rather than addition is a very important concept. It's also a very scary concept because most people don't know what they want. Changing from what's actually getting them promoted, a house, making money, and stopping can sometimes be the hardest thing.

What are some ways in which you help your clients discover what will really bring more satisfaction in their life? How do you help them make the journey, which is often the hardest part?

Kate Sotsenko: Of course. But it's good to highlight that the journey starts with ourselves. In today's world, there are so many headlines that sort of blame companies, but I always say the company is just a group of people and every single person is part of the group. We can wait for others to make the change, or we can start making the change that we want ourselves.

Everything starts from within, and I believe we still have this misconception of productivity. First of all, that productivity is an external game, but in reality, it is very much an internal game, and I call it a game of decisions.It's not about the tools and systems.

Yes, they come into play, and yes, they'll help you make the work more efficient and go faster. But they do not choose what kind of work you are going to do. You are the one choosing. Because of the speed we live in today's world, it's very hard for people to imagine that they can achieve the same results by going slower. They can even increase the quality of those results.

We all know the 80/20 rule and the paradox of choice, but we still have difficulties putting them into practice. That's all about the mindset, and that's where coaching comes in handy. Coaches have coaches too.

I get coached almost every week because we all have our limitations. We all see the world from our own lens, and sometimes we need that person who tells us things we don't see.

I'll give you two examples. One from myself: when I was working a couple of years ago with an executive coach, I remember sharing how overwhelmed I was and how many things I was doing.

My coach looked at me and said, "Kate, I'm noticing a pattern. Somebody is asking you for tea and a cookie, and you bring out 20 options for tea, 20 cookies, 20 cakes, biscuits, everything." It made me realize I was the one doing too much.

Another personal example is that every time I made a company switch and resigned, my workload dropped by 50%. It made me constantly realize that I was adding so many tasks to my plate, not the company.

For a client example, I worked with someone who called themselves a meeting holic. Everything needed to be a meeting, and everything was important. When we started working together, they realized they never knew what they were doing in the meetings. They were just jumping in and offering a meeting for every question.

Sometimes it truly helps to just click pause. That's where my framework starts: the good busy framework. You click pause, you ask yourself, what is the end goal? Because if there is no end goal, there is no point in starting that task.

The pace is extremely harsh, especially for people who work for very big companies. Everything is urgent, everything is important, and there is so much pressure. But probably 80% of that pressure we put on ourselves.

One key skill that I recommend is to ask more questions in the workplace. We don't ask enough questions. If your boss tells you, "I need this report," we say, "Okay," and start doing it. We don't ask, "What is it for? Who is it for? What is the main message you want to communicate? When do you need it by?"

There is a big chance that 80% of the time, I've already had the report and didn't need to do it from scratch. But because we don't ask enough questions, we say yes too quickly and overwhelm ourselves.

There is a great quote from a book called "The Coaching Habit." It says that questions help us to say yes more slowly, and it's absolutely true. That's one of the best ways to slow down in the workplace.

Ashish Kothari: Look, there is so much that you covered, and I love how you're integrating your own journey and all these different components for others. The notion of slowing down, stepping back to go faster, is a very powerful concept that I want everyone to take away.

Those who have no time need meditation the most because it provides that moment of clarity. If you are too busy, slow down. If you're running too fast, slow down. That balcony moment can make a big difference because you can start to focus on what really matters in the moment.

The second one, Kate, is your invitation to ask more questions. In the worlds I operated in—consulting, banking, private equity, or senior leadership—you get there because your bar for what's good enough and your push to get there is higher than many other people's.

So, like you, you might have 20 options for tea and 20 options for cookies and go into more detail than the person asking you even needs. By the way, I would love to join you for tea if we get 20 options and cakes and cookies with it.

Kate Sotsenko: I don't cook, but I'll serve you tea.

Ashish Kothari: But this notion of asking questions to clarify requests is crucial because so much busyness comes from not clarifying the actual deliverable needed. When is it needed? At what level of detail or perfection does it need to be? How current does it need to be?

Is it okay if I give it in two or four weeks because trends haven't changed much, or is it needed right now for a decision? This is really powerful.

The third one I also loved is understanding that something urgent for others doesn't necessarily mean it's urgent for you. We can either live our lives servicing those who shout the loudest, or we can live intentional and true to ourselves.

If my hustle for self-worth is about having Kate like me, then I'm going to do everything to have Kate and everyone else like me. Then I end up hating myself because I'm overwhelmed, and the work I'm doing is not enough.

So, those three things: understanding what's important to you, taking the time to step back and think, and asking a lot of questions. I love those because they can be so powerful in sorting through this mess.

Kate Sotsenko: Yeah.

Ashish Kothari: You mentioned your framework and a couple of key elements. Take us through the different elements of the framework that you help your clients deploy.

Kate Sotsenko: My framework is very simple. It starts with a pause. You start with the end in mind. Where's the destination? We don't clarify the deliverables enough, so we don't know what we need to deliver, and we don't know when we've got there.

The second part is about the rewind, which I call the preparation. This comes from sports. For me, going to play a tennis tournament without preparation isn't worth it because you're going to lose.

When we take simple examples like meetings, most of them require no preparation, so we end up having unproductive meetings because we come unprepared. We have many questions, things are missing, key people are missing. If we did the preparation beforehand, we would be much more productive and go faster in the meeting.

The third step is going forward. This is where you decide what you're going to take forward and what you'll postpone. Many meetings are overloaded with topics, making the agendas long and unclear. This is the moment where you decide what to proceed with and what to eliminate. For me, productivity is about elimination, not addition.

The next step is play. This is where you press the button and actually play. The most important thing here is monotasking. In meetings, 90 percent of people admit to multitasking. Honestly, I think 10 percent are lying because I don't know one person who hasn't multitasked.

The thing is, it comes back to our mindset and what's within. We think we notice much more than we actually do due to attention bias. In reality, we only notice what we focus on.

When you're in a meeting and focused on your email, you're not hearing what the other person is saying. You leave the meeting thinking it was useless because you didn't hear any information or ask any questions that could have given you answers for your work. This creates a need for another meeting to clarify information.

The fifth step is the replay. Replay is all about reflection. Many people have difficulty building habits because they miss this crucial last step. They try to repeat things that aren't working because they read that someone else is doing them.

There is no one-size-fits-all approach. The reflection part, the replay, helps you understand what to eliminate. If it's not working, take it out. There are many other ideas and tools to try.

A personal example: the famous book "The 5 AM Club." I tried it, but it doesn't work for me. I'm a 6 AM or 7 AM person, but many people love it, and that's fantastic. If I continued doing that, I would be very unhappy.

Replay helps you understand what to drop and what to keep. When you keep things that work for you, it becomes easy to become disciplined in them. You start repeating them because you see results, which gives you happy hormones.

When we are happy, we are more motivated and want to do stuff. Positive emotions are especially contagious for others and give us additional push and motivation. So, it's basically: pause, rewind, forward, play, and replay.

Ashish Kothari: I love it. I love the simplicity of it, especially around pause and prepare. Preparation is so important. So many meetings are inefficient and take a long time, or we need to meet again and again because the person putting the meeting together hasn't actually stepped back and asked if the meeting is even necessary.

What am I trying to achieve? What is the information? Who are the people? Preparation and agendas are so important. I'll add one thing, Kate, that's been working well. You might already be doing this with your clients.

I've tried inviting clients to start every meeting with one mindful minute. It creates a break for everyone in the room between the previous meeting and this one, making them more present. Only 5-10% of information is noticed even when we are paying attention, let alone when we are not.

If you haven't seen this video with people throwing a basketball, where you count the number of times the white team passes the ball, many people miss the huge black gorilla that walks in and out. That's attention bias. When you are multitasking, you're not there. You're missing out on so much information.

Secondly, multitasking takes longer to do even the task you are doing. You accumulate stress, and context switching takes more energy out of you. The next meeting and the next one are further energy-draining. There's so much bad that comes from it. You absolutely have to eliminate that.

I love the notion of replay because reflection is not something a lot of people do at the end of the day, week, or month. They don't ask, "What's working for me? What's not working for me?" so they can prune the things that aren't and add more of the things that do. It's beautiful.

Talk to me a little bit, Kate, about personal practices you do to nurture yourself and make sure you are at your best. Of course, you try and live these practices, but what are some other ways you take care of your physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional well-being? What are some things you've integrated to make sure you're at your best?

Kate Sotsenko: That's a good question. For me, around eight years ago, I started a gratitude journal, and that completely changed the vocabulary I use, not just outside but especially with myself.

I've done so much work around my personal vocabulary because I believe words turn into thoughts, thoughts turn into actions, actions turn into behaviors, and behaviors turn into our lives. Gratitude is how I start and end my day.

In the morning, I have my own gratitude mantra where I say what I'm grateful for. I talk to the universe all the time. I'm always grateful for safety, health, and my healthy and safe family. In the evening, I write three things I'm thankful for in my gratitude journal. It can be anything, like sunshine, a blue sky, or an amazing meal my sister cooked for me because I don't cook.

Last year, I added something to my gratitude journal. When you start working for yourself, it's not easier; it's just different. You choose your good and your hard. You have to learn to give yourself both a carrot and a stick.

I'm quite disciplined, which might come from sports, but the carrot is sometimes difficult for me. So, I added one thing that I praise myself for each day—something I've done for myself to stay in good shape, mood, and mental state.

I also added a section for a new thing I've tried each day, whether it's meeting a new person, starting a new book, or learning a new concept. A dear friend introduced me to the idea of newness, which creates motivation and curiosity. It makes life more exciting, breaking the monotony of daily routines.

In my journal, I also plan my day the night before. I choose one word that drives my emotion for the next day. If I have a workshop to deliver, I'll plan for focus or inspiration. If I'm spending time with family, I'll choose fun, enjoy, be present, or laughter. I believe in the power of words on our brain, and this practice helps me feel that emotion in the morning.

These are my two practices in the morning and evening. I also do sports. I played sports for 10 years, so not doing sports isn't an option for me. In my twenties, I was into very active sports, but now I'm happy to do yoga two to three times a week. It helps me slow down, stay grounded, and still gives me a lot of energy.

I also play tennis, swim, and paddleboard. My rule is always 80/20—nothing is perfect. As long as I do something active five days a week, that's good enough. It's never perfect, but my good enough is my perfect today.

Ashish Kothari: This was incredible. I love so many of these practices you talked about that you personally do. The new thing you tried today really spoke to me, as well as what are some things I praise myself for.

I always start my days with meditation and end my days with journaling or reflecting on one good thing that's happened. These are beautiful prompts for two reasons.

Gratitude, which I've shared a lot on this podcast, changed my life. If you look at the neuroscience behind it, gratitude counteracts the negativity bias. It invites us to connect to the abundance we have around us versus what we don't have. If you don't do that, you'll never be satisfied; you'll always be a maximizer because you're focused on what you lack.

What's one thing I praise myself for fundamentally addresses our inner critic and our tendency to beat ourselves up. Instead of beating ourselves up, you're cultivating daily recognition and appreciation for all the things you're doing for yourself and others.

You had a hard meeting, you messed up, but you're still alive, and you navigated it without giving up and trying again. We can find so many things about ourselves that others see, but we don't.

The third practice, what's a new thing, is beautiful because it encourages both reflection and forward-thinking. Curiosity and wonder help us continue growing our neural pathways. If you're not learning and growing every day, you're stagnating. Many people go through mundane day-to-day routines, but you can make a difference by trying new things.

Thank you, Kate. This was an unbelievably rich conversation. I love what you're doing. Where can people find you, and how can we support your work?

Kate Sotsenko: Thank you so much. You can find me on LinkedIn. I post content from Monday to Friday, a few times a week. Reach out, I answer all my DMs. I’d love to meet you. You can also subscribe to my newsletter on my website, thegoodbusy.com, where I send weekly secrets of how to be good busy on Mondays. These are the best ways to stay in touch with me.

Ashish Kothari: Wonderful. Thank you. Have an amazing day. The next time I'm in Europe, I will come find you, hopefully in Cyprus. I've never been, and it's such a beautiful country. It will be a good reason to visit and hopefully get a chance to meet.

Kate Sotsenko: Absolutely. It's worth visiting. Thank you so much, Ashish, for having me.