How to Shift from Reacting to Responding When Facing Triggers with Renelle Everett Darr

Ashish Kothari: Hi, Renell, it's so lovely to finally have you on our podcast. We've been talking about this for a while, so welcome to the show.

Renelle Everett Darr: Thank you, Ashish. It's nice to be here.

Ashish Kothari: Renell, you're an expert in helping leaders cultivate environments where burnout is replaced with purpose, emotional intelligence, and flourishing. I want to talk a bit about what led you to this work and what keeps you on this path.

Renelle Everett Darr: Absolutely, great question. When I went to college, I thought business was all about numbers. But the innate part of me was slightly different than most people who get finance degrees. I got my degree and went straight into big firms like Ernst & Young—now EY—and Deloitte.

Early on, I worked with executives, as you know, because in those firms, we get thrown into that work right away. I quickly realized, actually, I was told I was the “artsiest accountant” they’d ever met, so I transitioned into consulting.

At the same time, I gained a deep respect for how people and numbers go together—they aren’t separate. Business isn’t just about numbers; it’s really about people and finding that balance. From an external view, I got a broad perspective working with many global businesses in different industries.

But my real path to this work came as I was doing deep organizational change and growing as a leader. I noticed both in the clients we were serving that all of our problems were generally around what was going on within people and leaders, but we would say it was the process or the structure.

The same goes with my growth as a human, and as a leader. Most of the challenges I ran into were things within me and beliefs within me and growth I needed to do.

So I would say it was a combination of the deep inner work that I was willing to do, as well as looking at the world I was working in, seeing that processes and structure are important. What's going on within the leaders, who are really the architects of culture, that is what really is going to make the difference.

So that’s the path of self and the path of getting to see lots of organizational transformation.

Ashish Kothari: Talk to me about this path to self and path to inner development, what were some things that helped you know yourself better? What were those growth edges or shifts for you? What were some of that “from-to” shifts you had in that journey?

Renelle Everett Darr: Absolutely. I had my first executive coach in my early thirties, and I’m so grateful for that. No amount of training compared to the deep work I did with that coach. That was my first step into deep emotional intelligence and self-awareness.

One of the first things I worked on was learning to respond versus react. In the fast-paced world I was in, as things got more complex, I found myself reacting quickly. Learning to respond didn’t become an external shift until I understood what was driving me inside to react so fast.

I’d grown up as a perfectionist, thinking I had to work harder and be perfect to feel enough. I hadn't even realized how much that was driving me and almost to a point of burnout. I have to be better. I have to be perfect. And working in these firms, I was surrounded by some of the smartest people in the world, and so I was just constantly thinking I had to be better.

But that mindset started to burn me out because I was always in motion. I had to learn to simply “be,” and that’s where real growth began—a paradox in itself.

Ashish Kothari: It truly is, and it's something I relate to deeply. I've discussed on the podcast how striving for perfection propelled me to success, but also caused anxiety.

I want to emphasize to our listeners the powerful shift you mentioned—responding versus reacting.

When we are reacting, we’re often operating from a place of fear, we are addressing something out of concern it will go wrong. Often this reaction is from the place of the limbic. It’s our fight-flight-freeze response, an ancient survival system.

Renelle Everett Darr: Right.

Ashish Kothari: This is such a powerful shift. It’s about recognizing when we’re in that reactive mode—where adrenaline and cortisol flood our bodies—and training ourselves to come back, bring our brains back online, and respond intentionally rather than out of fear. It's such an important shift.

Renelle Everett Darr: Absolutely. You mentioned the fight, flight, or freeze response, and it’s really about being in our body. So often we’re walking around, stuck in our analytical mind, disconnected from our body.

If we’re not in our body, we can’t shift. Part of that shift is recognizing fear for what it is—not trying to push it away. It’s like saying, “Oh, there you are. I feel you in my body, and I’m going to make a different choice this time.”

Ashish Kothari: Let’s dive into that. I know I sent you a script, but we’re off-script now, and that’s totally fine because this is a big topic that people often don’t fully understand.

What are the signs that we’re in reaction mode? If someone listening is curious, how can they tell if they’re reacting or responding?

Renelle Everett Darr: Great question. One exercise I do with clients is a “trigger awareness journal.” We start by discussing what it means to be triggered. Usually, there’s something in your body—a feeling in your chest, shoulders, stomach, or elsewhere. It’s different for everyone, but it’s always in the body.

I ask people to pay attention to these sensations and write them down for a week. They’re often surprised by how frequently they get triggered. I encourage them to remove judgment and just observe.

For example, while driving or reading an email with a response we dislike, something triggers us. We often attach a story to it—beliefs we’ve internalized. Over time, I guide clients to explore the story behind each trigger, asking themselves, “What’s the truth here?”

It could be as simple as disliking certain language in an email. Recognizing that the sender likely didn’t intend it that way, we can respond in a way that communicates our needs. It requires slowing down, and while that might seem less efficient in the short term, it leads to huge gains in the long term.

Ashish Kothari: I love that idea. In our work on flourishing, awareness is at the heart of the individual and organizational models we use. We talk about triggers and tuning into them, but I really like this idea of a trigger journal.

Here’s something our listeners can try right now: take a piece of paper, draw two lines on it, and create three columns.

In the first column, write down every time you feel triggered—whether it’s anger, anxiety, fear, frustration, or any unpleasant emotion. Or maybe it’s a sensation in your body—tightness in your chest, shortness of breath, heat. Just note it down.

The second column is for what happened. Was it an email? A situation? Did someone cut you off? Was it something somebody said? Write it down verbatim without trying to analyze it.

Then, if you have time, either right there or at the end of the day, add a third column. This is for the story behind the trigger. Ask yourself, “What’s my story here?” Maybe an email was triggering because it felt disrespectful. That’s your story.

Now, you might want to add a fourth column—reframing. Where did this story come from? How could you reframe it?

For instance, if I’m triggered by rudeness, it might be because I was taught not to be rude, and it’s a core value for me. Noticing these patterns can be eye-opening.

I don’t think we’ve ever suggested clients document how often they’re triggered and look for patterns. This could be incredibly insightful.

What’s the reframing? For me, I often go back to when someone is rude; maybe the reason it bothers me is that I fear I might come off as rude. Early on, someone told me, “Don’t be rude,” and that became a core value. So, when I see rudeness, it triggers that reaction. I don’t think we’ve ever asked clients to track how often they’re triggered and look for patterns.

Renelle Everett Darr: Right. Sometimes what holds us back from shifting is trying to stay solely on the positive or affirmation side. If we don’t acknowledge the shadow—the triggers—if we don’t bring that up to the light, they just persist.

You also mentioned values, which are essential. We’re often balancing fear and purpose, and understanding our values can reveal if we’re actually living by them. Our values shift over time, so it’s worth asking, “Am I truly living according to what I value right now?”

For instance, I might value kindness or politeness but find that my environment doesn’t support those traits, which can be eye-opening. We’re constantly navigating the tension between triggers and values—it’s not an either-or; it’s both.

Ashish Kothari: So, I know I’m triggered. I’ve kept a journal, and over days, I start to see underlying stories shaping my reactions. How do you move from noticing to choosing a different response? There’s a gap between awareness and action. How do you help leaders build and cross that bridge from reacting to responding?

Renelle Everett Darr: It takes practice; there’s no “three easy steps” here. We’re rewiring our brains—reprogramming neurotransmitters physiologically. Technically, that’s what we’re doing with any exercise that we do.

One approach is helping people connect with their stories and beliefs to understand where their triggers come from. Sometimes, I ask clients to write a life biography: “Where do you think this trigger comes from?” Often, they say, “I didn’t even realize that the reason that I work so hard and exhaust myself is because of this thing that happened to me when I was a kid.”

And I’ve been walking around my whole life with this belief. One way is just to really see where it comes from, and when we do, sometimes, that’s all it takes.

Other times, it’s something deeply ingrained within us, and we have to keep examining it. We do little experiments—I call them “safe-to-fail experiments.” For instance, what’s one thing you could do that goes against your usual way of operating? Try something new, and you begin to train your system to feel a bit safer with different approaches.

Another exercise I enjoy is working with people’s inner “parts.” We have many parts within us, so I ask questions like, “What part of you doesn’t feel safe? What part of you feels the need to work harder, and why?”

I have a part I call “Irritable Isabel”—my inner teenager. She’s the first to show up when there’s fear, and she expresses it as frustration. Recognizing her presence allows me to integrate that part of myself. Sometimes, it’s as simple as realizing, “Oh, that’s what’s driving my reaction.”

The simplest bridge, which may sound cliché, is the breath. Our breath completely changes our state. Just taking a deep breath has an amazing power to shift our system when it feels unsafe, when we’re in fight, flight, or freeze mode. That breath can reset us.

Ashish Kothari: Is there a particular breathing pattern that you’ve found most effective? Or is it simply about paying attention to your breath?

Renelle Everett Darr: When it comes to breathing in the moment, I suggest making your exhale longer than your inhale because that engages the parasympathetic system.

For a deeper shift, I have a breathing technique that involves a deep breath through the nose, tightening the lower three chakras, holding it at the crown, and then releasing. I have a YouTube video on it for those interested; it’s a deeper practice.

Ashish Kothari: For those listening, try something simple. Renelle just mentioned a breathing technique: breathe in to a count of four and breathe out to a count of six. You can experiment with breathing out through your mouth, as if blowing into a straw, or simply in and out through your nose.

This 4-6 rhythm is a powerful way to regulate your nervous system, shifting from the sympathetic (fight, flight, freeze) to the parasympathetic state.

From this place, your cognitive brain is back online, and you’re not operating from the limbic, reactive part of your brain.

Now, you can start to examine some of the areas Renelle talked about. First, consider where you learned this response. How old is this story? Second, identify if this part of you—like Renelle’s “Irritable Isabel”—consistently shows up. Think about where that part of you is triggered.

Also, reflect on your values and the bigger intention you hold. You might initially want to react and tell someone off, but if your broader goal is to create a collaborative, growth-oriented environment, you may choose to hold that value higher. Instead of reacting, ask questions to understand the other person’s perspective rather than assuming they’re wrong.

This is the essence of moving from reacting to responding. In our busy world, it’s easy to think, “I know the answer; what you’re saying doesn’t make sense,” and move on. But that limits growth, and you end up carrying stories about how hard you work while everyone else falls short, keeping you stuck in a reactive pattern.

These patterns get ingrained in us. For example, I picked up a story at a young age that perfection was essential to being loved. That belief helped me get into top schools in India, brought me to the U.S. at 23, and helped me become a partner at McKinsey in six and a half years. That drive for perfection was at the heart of my success. It became like a friend, pushing me to work harder and hold everyone else to the same standard.

But we can’t just get rid of these patterns overnight. Some of you listening might have had these behaviors for 10, 20, 30, or even 40 years. Changing that doesn’t happen with a quick fix.

That’s why I appreciate Renelle’s suggestion of “safe-to-fail experiments.” Start with low-stakes situations, like a smaller meeting, where the impact of trying something different is minimal. Begin to observe the shifts as you choose to respond differently.

Renelle Everett Darr: Yes, and as we start doing this work, it’s really beneficial for business. It’s great for our teams, and ultimately, it feels so much better. When we come from a place where we’re shifting out of fear—recognizing it, accepting it, and not trying to shut it down—we genuinely feel better. We’re using our energy in a different way.

Not only does this improve communication and productivity, but it also feels good. There’s something powerful in that, in flourishing by feeling good inside.

Ashish Kothari: It’s one of the most powerful ways to start. When we begin our flourishing programs, we start with awareness. The first practice we teach leaders is APS—Awareness, Pause, Shift. Become aware of your reactive structures and mindsets, pause, and then choose to shift.

Without this, when I was doing research at McKinsey, senior leaders often found that all the meetings and problems they faced put them in reactive mode for seven, eight, even nine hours a day. They were constantly running on adrenaline and cortisol. If your mindset is, “I need to be in control, this needs to be perfect, it’s my responsibility, and if I fail, I am not worthy,” that structure keeps you on edge, irritable, and reactive. And if you combine that with a lack of sleep, especially in global roles, it heightens irritability.

So if you want your people to flourish—and if you want to flourish—working on yourself is the first move. It will feel good because getting out of reaction mode activates the parasympathetic nervous system, which brings rest, recovery, and slower heart rates.

You start to see what’s good, celebrate wins, and recognize that what you’re trying to control, and what you’re worried about happening in the grand big picture is not going to matter, it’s really not that big of a deal. And by the way, all you can choose to do is respond to what’s being present because control is an illusion.

Renelle Everett Darr: Absolutely. There are problems in front of me, and I can look at them as “How do I make this problem go away?” or I can look at them as “What outcome are we trying to achieve here?” It’s a very different mindset. When I’m focused on making problems go away, I’m in a reactive state, but when I’m focused on creating outcomes, I’m thinking about the bigger picture. It makes such a difference.

It’s funny—when most people start this work, they think, “I need to delegate better, manage conflict better, communicate better.” And those are valid goals, but they’re all external behaviors driven by our internal self-awareness and self-management.

Even if those are the goals, we still have to start with understanding why we do what we do. Only then can we truly change how we approach conflict, delegation, or communication.

Ashish Kothari: Yes, and it’s a lifelong journey. I have a question for you, and I’ll share my answer too. Moving from reaction to response is a lifelong journey—you’re never really done. I’m sure you’re still on that path, as I am, even after a decade.

I think humility is key in this work. People might listen and think, “Great, I’ll try it,” then feel discouraged if they fail. This is lifelong work. So here’s my question: after 10, 12, maybe 15 years on this path, what is one thing that still brings out “Isabel” for you? What’s the fastest trigger for you, even now?

Renelle Everett Darr: The fastest trigger for me is feeling misunderstood. I’m better at communicating and more present than I used to be. Still, when I’m tired or don’t say exactly the right thing, someone with a different belief system might interpret it differently than I intended.

In high-stakes conversations, if I don’t feel heard or feel misunderstood, my initial reaction is frustration. But deeper down, it’s like there’s this little girl in me who feels genuinely sad to be misunderstood.

“Irritable Isabel” is my inner teenager, but it’s really that inner child who feels sad when she’s misunderstood. I can get to that place quickly, though I recover and return to the center much faster now because I’m aware of my stories.

But if something is very important to me—especially if my values are involved—and I feel misunderstood, it can still trigger me significantly.

Ashish Kothari: When you look back, if you're open to sharing, what was the situation where “Irritable Isabel” first showed up for you? When was the seed of that pattern first sown? We always talk about these seeds, positive and negative, living within us. I’m curious—when did that seed first appear for you?

Renelle Everett Darr: That’s a great question. It was definitely somewhere in my teenage years. I can’t pinpoint it exactly, but I know it was during that time. I wasn’t one to take flight; I was more of a fighter. I learned to use frustration as fuel. That inner teenager in me figured out that working harder was an effective strategy, and I carried that mindset right through college. It became a highly successful strategy, but it also led me toward perfectionism.

Ashish Kothari: For me, I used to be constantly on edge, always focused on control. Most things I’m actually pretty good at managing now. Even though my face might not show it, I can use my breath to regulate and calm myself down. But one area where I still struggle to stop myself from reacting quickly is in conversations with my son.

He’s an incredible kid—kind, full of life. But when it comes to his studies or preparation, I’ll see a behavior, and I just lose it. Many times, it’s painful because I don’t want to react that way, yet I do.

I always go back to apologize, telling him, “I’m sorry, I overreacted.” We have a lot of love between us, so he’ll say, “It’s okay,” but I still make it clear that it’s not okay, even though it’s normal to lose it sometimes. I want him to know I’m choosing to grow from it.

In other areas of my life—business, relationships—I’ve learned to let go of that story of needing to be perfect to be loved or liked. But I realized that my conversations with him still trigger me deeply. It connects back to a story I picked up about success.

about survival. I grew up in: 1970

Even though we’re now in a completely different set of circumstances—different country, different financial situation—when I see him doing something that I worry won’t help him succeed, an old fear triggers me. It’s irrational, but it’s like this fear that he’ll end up unable to take care of himself. And that’s what still triggers me, even though I know it sounds crazy.

Renelle Everett Darr: Those old stories are still in our bodies, and I don’t think it’s crazy at all. First of all, it’s beautiful that you’re aware of it. Our children can create some of our biggest triggers because we want so much for them, and they reflect parts of us.

The most beautiful thing you said is the repair. So many people make a mistake, become reactive, feel ashamed, and don’t repair it. Instead, they swallow it down. Your son sees that you’re not perfect, that you made a mistake and repaired it with him. Through this, he learns that it’s okay to make mistakes and repair relationships.

That’s one of the most powerful things you shared. You’re still carrying this old story, but you apologize and repair instead of taking the stance of “I’m the adult” or “I’m the boss” and just walking away. You’ve released the shame by being able to repair.

Ashish Kothari: Thank you for mirroring that back. It’s a lifelong journey for me, and something I’m deeply committed to. I think this might be a good place to wrap up, though there’s so much more we could discuss.

We talked about doing a series, covering topics like purpose, emotional intelligence, and conscious leadership—topics that we both deeply care about. Maybe we can continue this over the next year or in future episodes.

To everyone listening, if there’s one takeaway from this conversation, it’s the concept of responding versus reacting. Notice when you’re in reactive mode. Understand that, while external factors are involved, most reactions come from our own stories, experiences, and beliefs that we carry with us.

Choose to pause, breathe, and use whatever tools help you shift back into a more creative state, activating the parasympathetic rather than sympathetic nervous system. You’ll feel it in your body—a sense of love, peace, calm, joy, or gratitude. From that place, respond based on your values and the higher purpose you’re pursuing.

Consider keeping a trigger journal. You might be surprised by how many times a day you’re triggered. I hope this conversation inspires you to embark on this journey. We’ll include show notes with ways to reach both Renelle and me.

This is the first step in healing ourselves as individuals so we can show up and create a better world. As Gandhi said, “Be the change you want to see in the world.” If we want to change the world, we must start by changing ourselves.

Renelle Everett Darr: Absolutely. If we want to make collective change, it has to start with ourselves.

Ashish Kothari: Thank you for joining me this morning. I know you have a busy day ahead. I’m filled with gratitude for this conversation, and I know our listeners will be too. Thank you for the beautiful work you do, and I’m grateful to have you as a friend.

Renelle Everett Darr: Thank you, Ashish. I’m grateful for you, too. We’re both on our own journeys, and I’ll be working on reacting and responding all week, just as much as anyone else.

Ashish Kothari: Take care, my friend.