Achieving Peak Performance Through Grit and Grace with Alison Tetrick

Ashish Kothari:

Hi, my dear friend Ali, it is so amazing to have you with us on the Happiness Squad Podcast. Thank you for joining us.

Alison Tetrick:

Oh man, I’m so happy to be here. You bring out joy in a lot of people, so this is a great time for me. I’m excited to learn more.

Ashish Kothari:

 So, I met you, Ali, as part of the work we were doing with the U.S. Olympic Committee. We met in a workshop, and right from the first day, I was blown away by your story. I was blown away by you.

As I was sharing with you, you're very special, and your life hasn’t been easy. But you’ve taken all the obstacles, things life has thrown at you, and turned them into this unbelievable force of nature that you are. You’re an inspiration to so many.

For many people, their careers, at least in the sports world, start and end on the podium. And then, there’s this glorious first chapter, and then in the second part of life, I see so many who are lost. Since I’ve been working in this movement for almost two years, I’ve seen so many who are lost.

And so, I’m hoping this will be an amazing episode for them and for so many others who have finished a chapter in their life and are discovering where to go next. You're someone who’s doing amazing things.

But I want to first chart that arc of your champion story. Take us back to your early years, Ali. And talk to me a little bit about how sport and competition first showed up in your life—and what drove you?

Alison Tetrick:

I have a unique beginning to sport. I grew up on a cattle ranch in California, so organized sports weren’t really part of our lives. We lived in a very rural area, far from town, and there were a lot of ranch chores to do. Not a lot of going to play club soccer or getting into youth sports.

But my parents are incredible athletes. We had a full working cattle ranch. My dad played football at UCLA. My mom ran cross-country with the men’s team because they were high school sweethearts and went to college together. That was before Title IX, so she didn’t have the opportunity to continue sports the way I did.

But in my early childhood, sports were just about working hard and being strong—about not being afraid of a challenge. My dad would have my sister and me throw spiral footballs back and forth to see who missed first—that person would do the dishes. There was always some fun competition there.

But I think I was just naturally competitive as the younger sister. My dad and mom are just incredible athletes and competitive in their own right. We’re just a family of athletes. But I started out as a cowgirl. It was always about hard work, and that work ethic translated into sports and also into education and school, basically into anything I did.

Ashish Kothari:

Amazing. So obviously your parents were a big influence on your journey. Were there other mentors or coaches who shaped your philosophy on performance, perseverance, and moving forward?

Alison Tetrick:

It was interesting because once I got to high school, I started playing tennis. I wanted to get a full ride to play NCAA tennis—and I did. We’re talking about me being a professional cyclist now, but there were so many more steps in between. It went from NCAA tennis into biochemistry. I was living in Boston doing chemistry research and drug discovery.

 But we're talking about that competitive turn point, which we'll get to the mentors is, tennis was frustrating for me because I started so late, and it’s such a skill sport. I got injured. There I was, working in a chemistry research and drug discovery lab in Boston, and I still wanted to do something. So I started running—just trying to find something.

Endurance sports are incredible. With my science background, it made sense. There’s this project aspect: the more work you put into it, the more you see a direct result of your efforts. Versus other things—like in the happiness project—those skills take time. You might not always see direct results.

And so, I was running, then I got injured again. My grandfather—who raced bikes well into his eighties—became a key influence. He was a 17-time national champion in the master’s division. He had an interesting start in sport, because he was a veteran and didn’t have the chance to play sports when he was young. He had a rough life growing up, and when he retired at 60 years old, he decided to get into bike racing.

For those listening—it's never too late to start something new.

I called him Grampy. He’s since passed.

Ashish Kothari:

Sorry. So he started at what time? What age did he start?

Alison Tetrick:

Sixty years old.

Ashish Kothari:

Oh my God. Wow.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah. And he just was great—just keeping up with the young guys around L.A., doing the group rides. And he just found kind of a new lease on life there.

He worked really hard. Him and my grandmother were married at 17, 18, and he was shipped off to Korea. He had a big life, a happy life, but then he found his new calling, which was cycling.

So he picked up my hand—and I remember this very specifically. He picked up my hand, and I’m a tall person and I do have large hands, so he called them my “mitts.” He picked up my mitt and he was like, “Al, you could go to the Olympics in this sport. You could be the best in the world in cycling.”

And I thought that was the dorkiest thing I’d ever heard. Because, you know, tight clothes. I’m a tennis player.

Ashish Kothari:

How old were you, Ali?

Alison Tetrick:

Twenty-two.

Ashish Kothari:

Wow.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah. And I think what’s really interesting about it is—it turns out I did. I got a bike off of eBay. I show up, next thing you know, I’m in Colorado. And at that time, he’s living in Colorado. I’m at the Olympic Training Center there in Colorado Springs—which you know very well.

And I’m there, and my grandpa comes down and is just so proud of me.

He was a tough guy. Love was not on the tip of his tongue. He showed it in his actions, but he was stern. Maybe it’s his generation, it’s his personality. But cycling became kind of like a love language for us, where I would call him after training or races. It just became our language of love. A way for him to show emotion and how much he cared for me and our family and the things.

I would cry. And I just described him so you can understand—like, I’m a crier. But I would cry to him after losing or feeling like a failure or being frustrated with an injury. I would cry, and then I would immediately apologize, because he gets uncomfortable, right? He’s kind of like, uh... this emotion...

I was embarrassed, and I said, “Oh, Grampy, I’m sorry. I know you don’t like it when I cry.” And he said, “No, Al. I understand. I feel you. I’ve been there.”

And he said the best thing about cycling is it teaches you humility. That it’s only a challenge against yourself—to be the best version of yourself. But there’s always going to be somebody better. You’re never always going to win. But you’ll learn humility and have the ability to challenge yourself.

So I learned a lot through him giving me a safe place to understand how to balance this intense competitive drive and also acceptance of failure—and understanding it’s a part of the process. He was one of my most important and loved mentors I’ve had.

Ashish Kothari:

Well, you know, Ali, I feel—I get teary-eyed as I think about you, and I can feel the love and the relationship you had with him. It's really inspiring me so much.

There are a couple of things I want to play back that are such valuable lessons here. The first one is that it’s never too late to start. I was talking to somebody just a week ago who called me and said, “Hey, I’m 52. This next job I take is going to be it. This is the next thing, and I want to make sure I make the right choice.”

And I asked, “Why?”

He said, “Well, you know, 65, right? I’ll do this for another 10, 12 years.”

And I said, “And then what? Did somebody tell you you’re going to die?”

He said, “No, no, no,” but people have this notion.

Then I had another conversation where someone said, “This is what I’ve done, so what am I going to do now?”

Even in an enduring physical sport like cycling, your grandfather started at 60 and raced until 80. That’s 20 years. So many people tell these stories. Even in the Olympic world, I hear:

“Well, I’m a javelin thrower. That’s who I am.”

So now I can either be a coach and stay a javelin thrower, or go commit myself to a different life skill or a work skill.

I find that very inspiring—that it’s never too late to start. And I tie that to your story. You didn’t grow up at 5 years old cycling like it was your destiny. You went from NCAA tennis, then into running, and then into cycling. It’s an amazing story of, “Hey, it’s never too late to start.”

I also love how you talked about the power of humility and deep learning. Somehow in sports, it feels a lot closer. You’ll never win it all. All you can do is show up, be your best self, learn from it, and keep going.

But again, I see this big difference. In corporate life, people make it all about winning or losing. And if you lose—oh my God—everything is lost. I see it in deals. I’m competing. There are four other firms. And if we lose it—oh my God—we beat ourselves up.

We never think maybe the other did better. The first response is always, “You messed up.” We don’t stop to ask, “Why might someone else be better placed?” “Did they just do a better job?”

Alison Tetrick:

Right, right.

I think that’s something important I was able to take from my grandfather and help my teammates with. A time trial is an event in cycling—a race against the clock. So there’s not really a lot of tactics. It’s just you—timed over a certain distance.

And I remember a teammate sitting there all upset because she got seventh or something. I asked, “Why are you upset? Are you upset about the result or your effort?”

That’s a big difference. The result is comparing yourself to other people—and you can’t always control the result. But you can control 100% of your effort.

Ashish Kothari:

Yeah, 100%. Are you upset about the result or are you upset about the effort that you put in?

Alison Tetrick:

Because the effort, you can change. The result, you can’t.

Ashish Kothari:

100%. And it’s so true, isn’t it, Ali? In life, in sport, and at work—we live in this self-sovereign world where we think, “I control everything.” But the reality is, we control so little. All we control is our actions. The outcomes? There are so many other elements at play.

I think that’s such a beautiful reflection. Thank you.

Alison Tetrick:

You’re welcome.

Ashish Kothari:

One of the things that’s stuck with me is—you speak often about the joy of gravel and how that redefined your relationship with sport.

Alison Tetrick:

 Yeah.

Ashish Kothari:

Talk to me a little bit about that.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah, so I raced on the World Tour—the world’s biggest stage in cycling—for over a decade. And it was a beautiful experience. I’m so proud of what I accomplished there.

But there was something more that I wanted. When you’re racing on the road, your schedule is dictated for you. You’re kind of on this pedestal. You’re getting whisked around, doing these amazing events like the Tour de France Femme of Exw or all these incredible races.

Ashish Kothari:

Yep. The whole world is there. They’re filming you. And it’s truly being in rarefied air. Team USA—it’s not like it’s easy. Think about how many people try and how few make it to team USA.

Alison Tetrick:

Exactly. It’s so rewarding. But I think sometimes you do get caught up in this external validation.

I found something in my career—unfortunately, and fortunately—I know it now, but a little later than I should have. So if this helps anybody: it’s also about finding a goal that inspires you. I think a lot of times, we end up chasing goals that somebody else sets for us.

“Close that deal.”

“Land this client.”

“Win this race.”

“Look this way.”

“Act this way.”

I got caught up in that because I like to please people. There are all these gold standards of what it looks like to be successful.

Finally, I sat down one day later in my career and thought, “I want to try this gravel racing thing.” There’s this 206-mile race in Kansas, and it made my heart flutter. It made me happy. I thought, “Wow, this is inspiring to me—to try something new, to push my limits.”

It was scary. I didn’t ride off-road. I didn’t ride that long. But I wanted to do it. And then it was just this little checkmark in my brain—“I have to do this.”

So I ended up going and trying out this gravel racing thing that was pretty new. And I won. I called my Grampy on the curb. Of course, he told me I was crazy and asked when I started hallucinating. I said, “Mile 176. I saw stormtroopers.”

But I loved it. I think it was coming off of this Team USA, big, dreamy pedestal—where you're so focused on your own results—and stepping into this space, which is a beautiful community of like-minded people. It didn’t matter about my results. They liked my energy. They liked my positivity. They liked to ride their bikes all day.

It was so much more about this all-encompassing community, and it just brought me back joy. It reminded me that bikes and sport can be a tool for connection, for stories, for adventure.

I thought, “These are my people. I have arrived.”

Ashish Kothari:

Yeah, I love that. And again, such parallels. I think about how we’ve spent our lives in such completely different worlds, and yet I see so many lessons here.

When I think about companies, I think about people racing to get promoted. “I want to win. I want the highest stock price. I want to be number one.” And even though people are in a company together, they’re still competing.

It’s very similar to what you’re describing, Ali—glory for self. “I want to be number one.” External validation: Wall Street, revenue, profits, growth rate.

And in many of those moments, we forget the joy of why we’re doing it in the first place. I’m not sure a lot of people today, when they think about work, say, “My heart flutters.”

Alison Tetrick:

 Yeah.

Ashish Kothari:

Actually, the statistic on heart fluttering is a depressing one. The highest number of heart attacks happen on Monday mornings.

People hate their work that much. Work is no longer a place where people flourish. It’s a place of immense human suffering. And that’s the mission we’re on—fixing that.

But I think about that flutter. Every day, you work with teams and teammates. We can be enjoying the experience. We can be uplifting each other, supporting each other, and enjoying the journey.

Versus a self-oriented, stadium-oriented, winning-focused journey—“Did you make it or not?”

Whereas in a community, we grow together. We learn together. And we’re really in the experience.

I love that. It must be such a different experience for you. I can see it.

Alison Tetrick:

 It’s beautiful. But I think it goes back to picking out what does make your heart flutter—or at least just excites you. Sometimes fluttering can be nerves. You're scared because it’s a change or a challenge.

But it’s about finding something that does that for you. That gives you purpose. And I think that’s where you flourish and find joy—with a purpose that drives you forward.

Ashish Kothari:

And the only way you sometimes get that is by trying. If you hadn’t gone and done that Kansas race, you never would’ve found out. It would’ve just been this thing out there—something different—and you would’ve always wondered.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah. And it ultimately changed my career. It relaunched a new version of me where I’m able to stay in the sport, give back to this community that’s given me so much, and feel valued and purposeful.

But I wouldn’t have been able to do that without taking the leap. Buying my own plane ticket. Negotiating with my team to even be able to do it.

Ashish Kothari:

 Talk to me a little bit about that Second Mountain journey you’re on now. What are you up to? I want our listeners to know about it—and find ways to support you. I think you are really an inspiring light for so many others.

Alison Tetrick:

Thank you. I’m still on this mountain. I’ll probably be here for a little while. I’m sorting it out—and you’ll appreciate this. This isn’t unique to anybody, but it comes in different sizes and shapes depending on the person’s life experience.

I’ve had to work on some self-identity issues—figuring out who I am. We didn’t touch on it earlier, but I had a traumatic brain injury early on in my career from a crash.

Coming back to the sport after that, I realized—through working with neuropsychology, my clinical psychologist, and all that—that my identity was so wrapped up in the bike and my performance. That gold medal visualization, right?

I had to realize I was more. I’m a daughter, a wife, a granddaughter, a friend—

Ashish Kothari:

A biochemist… haha.

Alison Tetrick:

A biochemist, yes! I was like, “Oh, there’s more than just bikes.” And in this gravel scene, it’s similar. If I show up to a race, I don’t have to race to perform every time. I don’t have to be that high-performance athlete in terms of results.

My performance now is starting to look more like: what can I do for the community to propel this forward?

So I’m really big on building inclusion and equity, and on keeping women in sports—getting them started and keeping them going. A lot of young women quit sports around the ages of 13 or 14, which you can understand why. There are body changes, and there are incredible studies on how women who stay in sports are more successful outside of it too—CEOs, executives.

Sports do so much for women in terms of confidence, opportunity, and growth. I think it’s just an important part of life. You don’t have to race for Team USA, but just staying active in the sporting environment is huge.

So I’m really focused on that.

My husband and I sell bandanas—of all things—to fund scholarships to get more girls on bikes. We work with this program called NICA, the National Interscholastic Cycling Association. They have a program called GRiT—Girls Riding Together.

We’re able to give multiple scholarships through that to help more girls get into cycling and sport. It’s also really good for mental health, too. That’s one of the big projects I love working on.

Ashish Kothari:

I love it. We’ll put the links in the show notes, and when we launch this episode, Ali, let’s spend a little time together and create a campaign. I would love for our listeners and others who hear your story to contribute—because it’s awesome.

I really believe in supporting girls and women, and the more we can do to elevate them, the better. We need that feminine power.

Masculine and feminine—we need more of that balance in our workplaces and in the world. And I don’t think we’re doing enough. In many cases, we’re actually pulling back.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah.

Ashish Kothari:

I think this is a pivotal moment for us. Anything I can do to help—we’re there with you.

Alison Tetrick:

Thank you. I also really like the word “elevate.” I love using it for this reason—elevating women’s sports in general. Whether that’s working with clients who are title sponsors, sponsors of events, or shows.

I have a podcast called The Move that I co-host with Mari Holden and Lance Armstrong, where we cover women’s cycling. I think that’s really important—showing that women’s sports are a good ROI for companies. It’s a great place to dream and get involved.

Visibility is viability. If you can’t see it, it’s not going to be viable. It’s about solving that problem. Kids need to see it to dream it. Right? It’s so cool.

Ashish Kothari:

And believe it and know that they can. I can’t emphasize enough the importance of role models. Because if I see you, I believe I can too.

I want to shift a little bit and talk to you about peak performance and mental strength. You had a traumatic brain injury. You’ve recovered. You’ve been in that chasing-success phase. And now you’re in a very different chapter.

But peak performance is something you’ve spent a lot of time on—cultivating it. So tell me: how do you define it? And how has that definition changed over time for you?

Alison Tetrick:

I think peak performance originally meant the pinnacle level of success—like you're the best version of yourself. From an athletic standpoint, that's easier to visualize. I’m a data dork, and cycling is really data-heavy. We're watching kilojoules, measuring watts, body fat percentage, distances, gradients.

So peak performance in that sense is when all the stars align and you are at your pinnacle level of fitness—ready to succeed at the highest level. That’s the easy one to visualize.

But now, it’s less about numbers and results for me. This is something I’m still working quite heavily on. Since it’s not just about data or a gold medal anymore, it’s more about being aligned—finding the best balance of mind, body, and spirit. When you're feeling present and grounded, when you're your full self—your full, authentic self—your confidence skyrockets. And I swear, your productivity skyrockets too. Then you are performing at your best level.

But I think that has to do with balance. It doesn’t happen all the time. This is what we’re working on in the Happiness Project—finding little ways to bring that alignment together. That’s where the best magic happens.

Ashish Kothari:

Absolutely. And the research is so clear—on both the individual and organizational levels.

I loved what you just said. Performance, many times in our early careers or in sports, is about chasing external measures. It goes back to what you said earlier: “Are you frustrated at the outcome or frustrated at the effort?”

That’s what you’re reflecting on here too. We can chase external data—podium finishes, kilojoules—or we can turn inward and focus on the inputs.

Am I feeling balanced physically, mentally, spiritually? Am I cultivating a way of being that enables me to perform?

If I focus on that—because that’s what I can control—then I can perform.

So, high well-being and focusing on our well-being leads to higher performance.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah, I think there’s something to that. Versus focusing on watts per kilogram or some metric of peak performance, maybe there’s another version—where you may not be bringing your strongest self, but you’re bringing your best self. If that makes sense.

Ashish Kothari:

It absolutely does. It can look so different for different people. Strength and physical ability is just one part of it. But there’s so much more—and we know this. Our minds are stronger than our bodies.

Any athlete knows that. I mean, I’m sure that 240-mile race was not all body.

Alison Tetrick:

 Ouch. Ouch.

Ashish Kothari:

Talk to me a little bit—let’s pivot into the mental game. Many people don’t talk about that.

How do you, Ali, cultivate your mental well-being? And how, in your journey, have you learned to manage fear, setbacks, and inner doubts?

I’m sure they come up all the time. They come up for me. I’ve been doing this work for a while, and they still show up.

I’m curious—how do you manage those moments where you’re not sure of yourself?

Alison Tetrick:

I’ll admit, I don’t always manage it well. No one is perfect, so there we go.

It’s hard. It’s really hard.

I also have anxiety and depression. That gets worse when you hit your head too many times—I’ll tell you that.

I joke that I operate on a high level of anxiety. It’s like a nice simmer of it. But I’ve learned to control that.

There are projects you and I have worked through, like mental health training. I ended up getting my graduate degree in clinical psychology because I was so fascinated with how the brain works.

That was expensive therapy.

But I think a lot of us high-performing people deal with more self-doubt, fear, and anxiety than people who aren’t these super Type-A achievers.

Part of that is what launches us to hit peak performance. But it can also be a detriment because it can become paralyzing. I land there a lot sometimes.

Of course, there’s imposter syndrome. “What if I fail?” “What if I’m not good enough?”—all of that.

What I’m learning is to acknowledge it, sit with the feeling, and understand why I’m feeling that way. Sometimes it’s because I’m procrastinating, so I get anxious. I don’t want to be late, or maybe I’m scared—scared of failing, or I don’t want to write that email or ask for that contract.

So I’ll sit with it and label it. I think that’s helpful.

But even before I do that, one piece of advice really helped. I had a coach tell me this once when I was super nervous before an event. I was shaking, sweating.

He asked, “How are you feeling?”

I said, “Freaking scared and nervous.”

And he said, “Good.”

I said, “Why good?”

He said, “It means you care.”

So I’m taking that advice. When I’m feeling fear or nerves, that’s a good thing. It means I care. It means I know I can perform. I know I can get through this.

That, to me, is a really beautiful place to be—understanding that fear is part of being human. It means we care. And it also means we know we can do it.

Other times, if it gets to be too much—whether I’m shaking during a boardroom presentation or about to go off a ramp in a bike race—I use breath work. That helps a lot.

Grounding helps—just feet on the ground, hands on something. Meditation, in a way. Something to bring my body back in.

Because that’s where I find peak performance—those blissful moments of balance. If I can bring my body back and center it, then I’m my authentic self.

And I can look at myself and say, “Okay, you’re scared. Makes sense. This is scary. But you’re scared because you can do this. And it’s okay if you fail. We’re here for you.”

Journaling helps too.

Ashish Kothari:

And journaling—yes. All five of the tips you just mentioned—I’m sure it took years of practice.

These don’t become second nature. That’s what our REBI program is all about. Each of these moves show up in the program, and I’ll play them back for people.

The first one is awareness. In the Sunflower Model, it’s at the heart. Just knowing what you’re feeling. Knowing that, “Yeah, I struggle with anxiety. It’s going to show up more for me.”

But it also goes away. That means it’s impermanent. I am more than my anxiety. I am more than my sadness. I am more than the story I’m telling myself right now.

That is such a powerful step.

The second one is labeling. Once I notice, I can label it. “I’m feeling anxious,” rather than “I am anxious.”

There’s not much I can do if I am anxious or am angry. But if I’m feeling anger, I can say, “Okay, I can choose to feel something else too.”

So naming is such a powerful move. “Name it to tame it”—it’s a powerful mantra.

If we can name an emotion, we actually give it less power. Instead of it consuming us, we make it an object we can observe.

Alison Tetrick:

I love that. I haven’t heard that one before. That’s great.

Ashish Kothari:

Yeah. I think Rick Hanson said it—“Name it to tame it.” It might have been him.

The third thing you highlighted is so powerful: reframing what we’re feeling. This notion of, “Yes, you're feeling anxious,” or, “Yes, you’re feeling nervous”—we can take that to mean, “Oh my God, I’m not ready,” or, “There’s something wrong,” or, “I’m going to mess up.” That’s one way. I’ve done that many times.

Alison Tetrick:

Yep.

Ashish Kothari:

But we can also say, “Hey, that’s just your body getting ready to rise to the challenge.” Because the feelings are the same.

If you’re about to do a bungee jump—that excitement you feel—or the pit in your stomach before going on stage, physiologically, the body is reacting the same way. But how we reframe it matters.

I really like your reframe, Ali:

“It’s great. You’re feeling this because you care.”

If you care about something, it’s okay to feel those things. It’s actually funny—I don’t get angry that much, but there’s only one person in my life who can really light my fuse. That’s my son. I call him my biggest guru, because I care the most about him.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah.

Ashish Kothari:

And so he brings out that emotion in me. If I see him doing something I believe won’t serve him, I get upset. It’s because I care so much.

So if we can notice that we care, and remind ourselves that it’s okay—that it’s hard—that’s the other piece: be compassionate. Give yourself a break. Don’t beat yourself up. Don’t ask, “Why am I anxious?” Just say, “It’s okay. It’s really hard right now.”

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah.

Ashish Kothari:

I love that. And then, breathwork.

Now talk to me a little bit about breathwork. What kind of breathing works for you? There are so many techniques out there, but I’m curious—what’s your go-to, especially in those extreme moments?

Alison Tetrick:

I do have one, and it actually helps in cycling performance too. I do similar breathwork during high-effort rides because your heart rate is at 185 beats per minute. You’re crunched down on a bike, moving fast, and it sets your body into that fight-or-flight mode. You feel that same thing when you’re nervous or scared—your heart’s in your throat, you’re sweating, shaking.

So I do big belly breaths that aren't attractive—kind of like big yoga breathing. I breathe in through my nose, out through my mouth, and try to expand my stomach as far as possible. That’s why I say it’s not a good look—but it works. It tricks my body into thinking everything’s okay.

It helps during a full gas effort on the bike too. It’s like telling my body, “You have oxygen. You’re fine.”

And I also like to focus on something while I’m doing that—usually something in nature. I don’t want to be staring at my computer or phone. I don’t want to be doing something. I want to be still, just doing these nice, slow breaths.

So nothing fancy. Because when I’m nervous, I forget all those fancy techniques you learn. My brain gets so fixated on the feelings that it forgets all the other practices.

So for me, it’s just big, calm breaths. Even when you’re scared or nervous, it gives your body the illusion that everything is okay—and then your body starts to believe you.

Ashish Kothari:

Absolutely. It’s interesting. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about and exploring breathing. It’s the first act of human life—and the last.

A baby is born, and the fight to breathe is the first fight. The last breath is what stays with us.

But isn’t it amazing how much of our lives we spend unaware of our breath? We breathe unconsciously—because we can. We can’t consciously control our heart rate, but we can control how we breathe. And through that, we can modulate our body. But we can with breath.

If we can learn to consciously use breath as a tool—as you said, to send a different signal to our body, to say, “It’s okay”—what we can unlock is immense.

And yet I’m amazed—we teach people how to do economics, how to run, how to program... but we never teach people how to breathe.

Alison Tetrick:

That’s true. That’s interesting. I think it’s a good way to ground yourself. For me, taking big breaths—visualizing how much I can fill up—helps. That’s why I do those big belly breaths, asking, “How much can I fill up my lungs?”

It’s also about being in tune with your body, which connects back to grounding. If you have other breathing techniques I can remember, I’ll take them offline.

Ashish Kothari:

I’ll give them to you. I play with so many of them. In some of the mystical traditions, there’s so much power in using breath to reach different levels of consciousness and calming states. It’s such a fascinating space.

I really believe that if we could teach kids in middle school—because that’s when it starts—just some of these breathing techniques, they would need fewer drugs. They’d do less self-harm because they’d know how to regulate their minds and bodies using their own breath.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah, I bet so.

Ashish Kothari:

And it doesn’t take a lot. There’s another phrase I’ve heard you talk about, Ali, and I want to explore it. It’s in the context of performance. We’re in a performance culture, always go-go-go.

You talk about grit versus grace. How do you know when to push and when to pull back? It’s so beautiful. Grit versus grace.

Alison Tetrick:

It’s an enigma, in a way—but you can’t have one without the other.

Grit, to me, is a word that makes me happy. It’s dusty, it’s being in the weeds, in the trenches. In cycling, I get all dirty and sweaty. Life is hard. Grit is about pushing through.

In cycling, and in the work world, I think people glorify suffering way too much. “I worked so hard.” “We suffered.” “Push through to get to the top.” I don’t want that to define grit, though sometimes it is.

I think it was Billie Jean King who said, “Pressure is a privilege.” So when we’re out there working hard—whether to win a race or succeed at work—and we glorify how hard we’re working, that’s a privilege. That’s where grace comes in too.

I’ll always push through. But I’ve learned that’s not always the smartest thing to do.

Ashish Kothari:

 Yeah.

Alison Tetrick:

I don’t quit. I’ll crash and get back up, and people tell me I’m so strong because I’m bloody and broken—figuratively and literally.

Inside, too.

They say, “You’re so strong. You came back from this traumatic brain injury.” And yes, I got back on my bike. But inside, I was really broken. Maybe I shouldn’t have pushed through.

I don’t want to glorify that, but I do love having that grit quality. Still, pushing through isn’t always the best option—and that’s where grace comes in.

Because you will fail. That’s inevitable. Sometimes, it’s better to give yourself grace. Say, “You’ve done enough. It’s okay.”

If you have space in your heart and the mental capacity, give others grace too. Assume they’re doing their best.

We get caught up in blaming and pushing through. I struggle with this. I’ll sit on the couch because I’m tired—but I’m not doing anything. Then I beat myself up for not riding my bike, not finishing that proposal. The dishes are in the sink. The bed’s unmade. And I’m still on the couch.

So I’m not even recovering. I’m too tired to do anything, but my mind won’t let me rest. That’s where grace is needed. “You’re tired. You deserve this time to turn on some bad TV or just stare at the wall.” Instead of always pushing through, sometimes we just need to say, “You are enough. You can rest.”

Ashish Kothari:

It totally makes sense. I see it all the time.

You are so self-aware. I wish more of us came with a battery meter—like our phones. When it goes red, it dies. I wish people had a little meter on their heads to show how drained they are. Then at some point, it could say, “This is your moment to recover.”

It’s okay to recover—versus pushing yourself deeper into the red until you crash and burn.

Alison Tetrick:

Yeah, and crashing looks different for everyone.

For me, I get wound up and launch into orbit. Other people want to nap. I get hyper—staccato. Frantic. I’ve learned to look for those warning signs before I spiral.

And my spiral doesn’t go down—it goes up. Which is not productive. But I liked your point.

Ashish Kothari:

That’s important too. What does your spiral look like?

Alison Tetrick:

 Yeah. I get overstimulated. You’ve seen it with me a couple of times. I’ll say, “Whoa, this is a lot.” Then I talk too fast. I launch—I just launch somewhere.

But I loved your point. With grit versus grace, I don’t think you can have one without the other.

And as you said earlier—sometimes pushing means pulling back.

Ashish Kothari:

That’s something I struggle with a lot. Before this episode, I was telling you—I feel really blessed. I truly am living my alchemist journey.

As I pursue my personal legend to eliminate human suffering at work, the universe keeps conspiring in mysterious ways to pave the path.

That was my reflection: pushing versus pulling back. Grit versus grace. Grit often requires a huge focus on self, on willing our way forward.

But in that moment, sometimes we forget to stop and listen to the grace around us. To what the universe might be whispering while we’re screaming.

And maybe, in that moment of pause, there’s another door open—but we’re so hell-bent on breaking through this door that we miss a better path.

So that’s also the element of grit and grace. If we can constantly push but also pull back and reflect on what’s out there…

Earlier this week, I had a conversation with someone about being and doing.

We’re in a startup. I was up until midnight two days ago. I was having that conversation: doing versus being. You can have two different things. Yeah, man. If you’re always doing, we’re not being. And we often frame these as polarities. “You can either be gritty or graceful.” “You can either give yourself a break or keep going.”

But what if we integrated them?

That’s what I told him. My lesson two years ago was “stillness in motion.”

Alison Tetrick:

 Oh, yeah.

Ashish Kothari:

 Right. You can both be doing and being. That’s called flow.

Alison Tetrick:

 Yep.

Ashish Kothari:

They don’t have to be separate.

Grit and grace together—that’s when the power comes.

Alison Tetrick:

I love it.

Ashish Kothari:

But we’re either too much in grace or too much in grit. And neither helps.

Alison Tetrick:

No, it doesn’t. But there is a balance.

Ashish Kothari:

So, my friends, there is a balance—and it’s a constant practice, because you never “get there.” It’s not like you’ve reached some final destination or ideal spot.

You’ve been part of high-performing teams. You’ve been at the peak—Team USA, World Championships. That’s rarefied air. And through grit and grace, you’ve achieved that not just once, but many times.

You’re continuing to do that—for yourself and for others. You’ve led high-performing teams, and now you do amazing work in the business world too.

As we wrap up this episode, Ali, what’s your advice for a leader who wants to build a high-performing team and a flourishing culture?

What are the learnings from your sports life, your transition, and your business journey? What might be three pieces of advice you’d give?

Alison Tetrick:

Oh boy.

I think the first is creating space for curiosity.

A lot of times we get stuck in the trenches of “how it’s been” and “how it should go.” But entering a space of curiosity is powerful. And it has to be nonjudgmental—because you can’t be curious if you’re judging.

So, curiosity needs a little bit of grace sprinkled in. A leader can be curious about how to motivate their team. What does the future of the company look like? Who are we today? Where do we want to go?

That’s my first one.

When you're curious in a nonjudgmental way—and that’s hard, especially toward yourself—you can motivate your team to perform at their best. You create room for a fluid, forward-looking future rather than staying stuck.

The second is surrounding yourself with people who not only uplift you and give you grace—but also challenge you.

Leading a team is all about trust and communication. And cycling, weirdly enough, is a team sport. We all have different skills.

I’ll compare it to football: you’ve got a quarterback, a running back, a linebacker. In cycling, you’ve got a climber, a sprinter, and a domestique. The domestique’s role is solely to help the team perform.

So when you set up a team with trust and communication, people embrace their roles. And you don’t just want yes-people or no-people. You want people who uplift, challenge, and play to their strengths.

I used to say: “Train your weaknesses, race your strengths.” People always say, “Work on your weaknesses,” but I’d say, “I’ve got some really good strengths—I’m going to race them.”

But when the cards fall in the wrong place, I’d better have been working on those weaknesses too—because I might need to pull out that card when it counts.

So: trust, communication, and honoring both strengths and growth areas.

And the last one, which has taken me a long time to truly internalize, is celebrating the progress—not just the outcomes. That’s really important.

Ashish Kothari:

Absolutely. And all the research supports that.

We often focus on the gap, not the gain. We forget the journey. But looking at the progress can be incredibly motivating—for yourself and for your team.

Ali, my friend, we could talk forever.

Alison Tetrick:

I have to come back. I would love to talk to you all the time.

Ashish Kothari:

You really are amazing. Thank you for sharing your insights from the field, from your life, and from the work you're doing. I’m grateful to call you my friend and to get the chance to work with you. Thanks for everything—and for being here.

Alison Tetrick:

Oh, thank you. You are a treat to know and work with. You’re an inspiration—and you bring out the best in people.

Ashish Kothari:

Thank you, my friend.